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Coyotes nail dog during Colorado hike
May 24, 2011 — Ralph Maughan100 Responses to “Coyotes nail dog during Colorado hike”
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The Wildlife News 
May 24, 2011 at 8:00 PM
Why is this news? Just demonstrates why you should keep your dog on a leash, especially a six month old pup that isn’t wilderness savey and trained to stay with its owner. When I was a young man I used to let my dog run while I hiked and backpacked, then this exact same thing happened to a friend’s dog. After that my dog was always on a leash until and unless he was trained to stay by my side no matter what.
May 24, 2011 at 8:28 PM
Alan,
When it comes to this subject, it depends on what the topic is, when it is trapping, dogs should be allowed to run free, when it comes to wolves and coyotes, they should always be on a leash, what is the answer?
And I have my own feelings, but some seem to change based on what the topic is?
May 25, 2011 at 9:07 AM
Answer is training, knowing the terrain, and protecting your dog. We have a popular hike in the canyons around Boulder called Rattlesnake Gulch..and for good reason. People who let their dog off lead here are just asking for a dead dog in this area; other areas..pretty safe from most predators. The ones I “fear” the most in terms of dogs are the lions…you don’t see them, but they sure as hell see you..and if your dog runs off into a grassy or treed area, no guarantees you are going to see that dog again.
May 24, 2011 at 8:29 PM
Alan,
I most heartily agree with your question and statement. Not that I don’t have sympathy for the owner, or perhaps more so for the dog.
May 24, 2011 at 9:01 PM
I have sympathy for both the dog and the owner. Pet owners should really be aware of their surroundings. All it takes is one mistake and bam, your dog is killed by wild animals.
May 24, 2011 at 8:42 PM
Alan. You said it. It demonstrates why dogs should be on a leash in the backcountry, especially a 6 month old dog that has no experience.
May 24, 2011 at 8:59 PM
I think all dogs should be leashed when in the wild Ralph. The people who let their dogs run unleashed are usually the dogs that are killed by wild animals. Just look at hound dogs as a good example.
May 26, 2011 at 2:41 PM
I have my bird dogs in the back country all the time without a leash. They get bothered by coyotes, but coyotes usually dont push the issue since my dogs are quite a bit larger. I hunt chukars in areas infested with coyotes and have yet to have a problem.
May 24, 2011 at 9:04 PM
It is always a pleasure to met a well mannered, wilderness wise dog on the trail who is keeping an eye on the people they are attached to and paying attention. Unfortunately they don’t get they way easily. Having a good well trained dog is a lot of work and takes time and sometimes mishaps like the skunk spray or porcupine quills, bringing back a mad black bear or, sometimes the dog gets killed first. When a young boy says “Mom and Dad I really really want a dog can I have one please please I will do anything . . . ” The proper answer is “Do you think a dog wants you?” Dogs need daily walks and training and are far more intensive a responsibility than most people are aware of. It is also getting very expensive to own a dog. I am sorry this person lost a dog, but I hope stories like this might make someone, anyone think twice before taking on the responsibility.
May 25, 2011 at 1:23 AM
I like that answer: “Do you think a dog wants you?” A dog wants and needs someone who will work hard to bring out the best in him, and do everything necessary to keep him safe, well, and happy.
From what I read on your blog, I gather you track animals for benevolent purposes, not so you can blow their heads off, right? Your artwork is as lovely as your subjects.
May 24, 2011 at 9:09 PM
A well trained dog, that responds to voice command and does not wander, in my opinion, is fine off lead. The problem is with untrained dogs in general, and young untrained dogs in particular. I had one dog in particular that carried a pack or pulled a sled, and it was not feasible to have him on a lead. I’ve said before, the one I have now won’t let me get out of his sight (an old training trick that requires a friend).
That said, whenever I am in the backcountry, I have the leash with for those just in case moments. It takes a lot of time and effort to train a dog, and you don’t want to lose them. However, leash or not, just like ourselves, when venturing in the “wild”, anything can, and often times does occur.
May 24, 2011 at 9:22 PM
I wouldn’t be comfortable with letting my 2 dogs run unleashed even if they knew commands and were trained. You shouldn’t take any chances in the wild where wild animals reside. As I said, it only takes one mistake. This lady found out the hard way. Just look at hound hunters who lose their dogs to wolves. You let any dog run unleashed, you better be willing to accept that there is a good chance they might run into trouble and it could wind up being very deadly for the dogs.
May 24, 2011 at 9:31 PM
Someone should find and kill those coyotes for acting like coyotes
May 24, 2011 at 9:38 PM
When I was young are summer cabin was several miles north of the start of the Beartooth Highway switchbacks. We always let are dogs run loose. They were good dogs, my bother and cousins were save several times from moose. I would always take are little fox terrior fishing she could handle a moose but was never needed .
May 24, 2011 at 9:45 PM
Both of my Golden’s were allowed to run my property when they were alive, they also knew the boundaries and never crossed them, they were very well behaved and very well trained, their ability to run our property, actually saved my rear a few times over the years. Most of us that recreate, work and hunt in the woods know and accept the risk that something could happen. I would suspect that many that comment on these types of threads live in town and only visit the woods, not all, but most. And I would say, that same have never visited the woods!
May 24, 2011 at 9:51 PM
sb, would you let your dogs run unleashed in the woods?
May 24, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Jon,
I did all the time, as I have stated before, I don’t go to the woods, I live in the woods and the closest town is a couple of hours drive away, yes, when we went on walks, they were not on leashes…
May 24, 2011 at 10:02 PM
And yes, I knew the risks, I have bears, coyotes, mt lion, and wolves around here all the time..
May 24, 2011 at 10:03 PM
sb, sorry for the questions, but have your dogs ever run into any bears or wolves? any close calls?
May 24, 2011 at 10:07 PM
Yes, we ran into a bear one day, all came out a little worse for wear, but everyone lived..
May 24, 2011 at 10:09 PM
I will tell you this, often times the little critters are far worse that the big ones, my older golden ran into a pack rat once, man did she get torn up, but the pack rat eventually lost, she was very proud with that stream of blood running down her chin!
May 24, 2011 at 9:39 PM
In a high profile case a couple years ago, a Wyoming Game and Fish biologist from Cody went solo camping with his Labrador dog companion in the wilderness just outside eastern Yellowstone. While setting up his tent in Eagle Creek Meadows , the young dog was taken by a pack of wolves and killed almost instantly . The biologist could only watch as it happened. I recall it was less than 100 yards from his camp. It was a graphic display of territorial imperative. The dog encroached on the wolves territory and paid the ultimate price.
You would think a Wyo G&F biologist of all people would know …
It was, after all, a teachable moment.
May 24, 2011 at 9:43 PM
What happened to the wolves Cody? Did the biologist want them killed?
May 25, 2011 at 8:11 AM
I believe it was the established Pahaska wolf pack , and no action was taken. That pack doesn’t come close to cattle ever, and spends much of its time inside Yellowstone, too. There was no reason to act against the wolves.
I think the G&F guy was in fisheries, not game. It was all unfortunate and probably preventable. Experience is the art of learning not to keep making the same mistakes.
I will comment that Wyoming Game & Fish has a very extensive program to educate people about the risks of living and recreating in and around Grizzly bears. They call it ” Bear Aware” and saturate the communities of northwest Wyoming with literature, seminars, school visits, PSA’s , outdoor advertising , and all manner of promotion and outreach.
A similar ” Wolf Aware” program is apparently not on their To Do List.
May 25, 2011 at 10:19 AM
Cody,
For several years the WGFD has covered wolves in their “Living in Lion, Bear, and Wolf Country” seminars held around the state every spring. Secondly, well trained dogs are a huge bennefit in bear country and the backcountry in general. Dogs in the Wyoming backcountry routinely take bears out of camps and keep them away. A dog “trained” to be a pet and stay close to you, looking to a human for leadership at every turn of the trail is not the dog I want working for me. If a dog doesn’t have the brass and the smarts to keep himself and me safe I don’t need him, but I don’t hold that against anyone wanting a dog strictly as a pet. I expose all my dogs to all the risks in the woods that I can, this includes traps. All my dogs have been in traps and snares. None were injured, and they all know how to avoid them now. There is hardly an outfitters camp in Western Wyoming without a few hardheaded dogs in it. This is for a reason. My sympathy goes out to the owner in Colorado, losing a dog is tough but it is one of the risks I am willing to live with. My dogs would be miserable if kept on leash or at heal 24-7 and I wouldn’t own one if I needed to do that.
May 25, 2011 at 10:28 AM
http://gf.state.wy.us/services/education/workshops/index.asp
May 24, 2011 at 9:42 PM
Usually it’s wolves that do the dog-killing, but here’s a rare incidence of coyotes defending their home territory from an invading canid. I wonder how long it’ll be before the animal control guys will be out there to kill those coyotes. I’d guess that they had a den nearby with pups, and they went after the dog as they would any other canid intruder. How many centuries it will take people to realize that their dogs can become targets of aggression when they invade other canids’ territories? This is especially true in wolf country. Dogs there are constantly reported as being attacked by wolves, and the people seem too stupid to “get it”.
May 24, 2011 at 9:43 PM
Or they blame the coyote or wolf!
May 24, 2011 at 9:44 PM
Here in CO off leash dogs are a problem for a wildlife not usually the other way around. I have a well trained Blue Heeler who is always under tight voice & sight control & always within arms reach to hook a leash if necessary. At dusk & at night he is always on leash because of the coyotes in our hood. The good news is that the CO Division of Wildlife is increasing their efforts to educate the public on coexisting w/ coyotes (as are many City Open Space progams).
May 24, 2011 at 9:47 PM
In certain ways Colorado seems progressive. Where is the CO Div of Wildlife on wolves in Colorado?
May 25, 2011 at 9:10 AM
Not supportive.
May 24, 2011 at 9:50 PM
I have a couple coyotes that live right across a large meadow from me. Some of you may recall the picture of one of them that was on this site for a while this winter. I sit on my porch and watch them hunt nearly every day. My Border Collie sits at my feet and watches them with me. She has never approached or bothered them. I have a neigbor that has a Great Pyrennes/Golden Retreiver mix that chases them off once in a while. But I never let my dog out without looking around first as wolves do pass thru the hood occasionally.
May 24, 2011 at 10:06 PM
My wife and I have had dogs all of the 34 years we’ve been married, and we’ve always taken them into the wilderness with us unleashed. We have in the last few years, had several encounters with wolves at close range, with no ill effects. The key is, as someone mentioned, having well-trained dogs that will obey commands, and keeping an eye on them in the wilds. Years ago, our dogs slept outside the tent at night, but since the wolf introduction, we have them sleep in with us. Not a big issue if you like your dog. We’ve also had experiences with moose and coyotes with our dogs, and not had any serious issues there either. I do carry a firearm in the woods, but I have learned from my experiences in law enforcement and wilderness travel, the most dangerous creature out there is man. Although we’ve had some tense situations with animals, we’ve only been threatened seriously twice, both times by people.
I totally agree that an untrained dog should be leashed.
May 24, 2011 at 10:12 PM
IDhiker
++we’ve only been threatened seriously twice, both times by people++
In all my years and all my world travels, I have never been threaten seriously by humans. I would be a new experience and one that I would rather avoid.
May 25, 2011 at 12:04 AM
I agree that other people are the biggest threat lurking in the woods, especially in the foothills surrounding populated areas where people like to weekend camp, excessively drink, and fool around with firearms. There’s something very different about getting into a threatening situation with another person in the woods.
May 24, 2011 at 10:02 PM
Idaho Fish and Game Authorizes Deputies to Kill Problem Wolves [for killing dogs and livestock]
http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/predator-hunting/articlecontent/5/2011/2309/idaho-fish-and-game-authorizes-deputies-to-kill-problem-wolves
I believe there will always be problems with wolves killing dogs and livestock. You can’t keep hound dogs on a leash. I still believe the only solution is to have areas designated for these large preditors (grizzlies and wolves) as game reserves or National Parks and to fence portions off.
May 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM
Maybe I’ve been lucky but the two larger dogs I’ve had (current one a labrador) have always wanted to stay right with us and not wander at all when we were hiking or camping. As small pups, we gave both of them treatment we read about in a book on training dogs by the “Monks of New Skeet”. We would take them on a walk and then purposely run and hide when they weren’t watching. After a few times screaming and running around in the woods in a panic looking for us, they’ve always wanted to keep very close track of us, which has held through adulthood. We’ve packed both with food (ours and theirs), meat down from alpine hunts, etc. and never need a leash away from town. The one problem area is they will occasionally wander down on the beach, away but always within 200 yards or so of the house at times looking for an intertidal treat like a rotten salmon or remains of a winter-killed deer. That became a bit of a concern last fall when there was a wolf in the neighborhood.
May 25, 2011 at 12:15 AM
I don’t know if that training tactic would work with a malamute. Mine stays with me in the woods fairly well, but he’s got a lot of speed and likes to lead me by about 20 yards. When spending time in wolf country, I leave him home.
In Glacier Peak Wilderness last summer, he howled for a good 3 or 4 minutes when I forced him to cross a river with me. I figured every predator within 10 miles probably heard it.
May 25, 2011 at 7:14 AM
SEAK Mossback,
“Monks of New Skeet (Skete)” arguably the best dog training book out there. Worked wonders with my two German Shepherds. And yep, hiding on them in the woods when they are young puts that fear into them, and after that “terror” a few times, they will never allow you to get out of their sight.
May 25, 2011 at 9:12 AM
Monks techniques on training are a bit outdated in terms of behavioral research, but they love their dogs. I grew up not more than miles away from the monastery and their dogs were always in demand. They also make a hell of a cheese cake you can order via the internet. And I suspect the bonding comes from the tethering and the sleeping arrangements with the monks long before they would be woods wise…
May 25, 2011 at 10:30 AM
the tethering sleeping arrangements are part of the housebreaking, and bonding criteria. All this is taking place during the critical period of socialization with the dog, which runs to about 15 to 16 weeks of age. The woods wise part comes later.
May 25, 2011 at 7:02 PM
I know…very familiar with the Monks, Morgan Spector, Pat Miller, Karen Pryor, Bill Bailey….The Monks are close to being positive reinforcement trainers in their latest book; I was glad to see they got rid of the Alpha Roll…too easy to freak the dog out and possibly hurt it. I find Jean Donaldson’s books on dogs, and understanding THEIR view of the human world very helpful in training our Labs. A good website for all things dog is http://www.dogwise.com….
May 25, 2011 at 9:14 AM
If that happened in Utah the dog owner could take the owner of the land to court and win a monetary settlement for not adequately controlling their ‘yotes. We don’t like wild creatures wreaking havok on our pets or kids.
May 25, 2011 at 9:14 AM
One of the techniques for coyotes that seems to be gaining ground here is the use of a LOUD airhorn..the ones that you would carry for personal safety. It doesn’t depend on your aim, as do the sprays, and the noise is just incredibly startling and will generally break up any kind of encounter before it happens.
May 25, 2011 at 2:08 PM
A few years ago, a pack of wolves moved in around Prince Rupert, down the coast. It was a common story — the deer moved into town to get away from the wolves and partake of exotic shrubbery, and the wolves started coming in after them. Then unleashed dogs started being attacked while walking with their owners on a popular trail (Butze Rapids) at the edge of town, so the wildlife authorities put up a sign warning owners to keep their dogs leashed. Shortly thereafter, a friend who was walking the trail heard a woman scream bloody murder up ahead. She had been walking her lab on a leash when the pack came quickly and quietly out of the brush and grabbed the dog from both ends, completely ignoring her. She suddenly found herself playing a wolf pack on very short line with no backing, so she dropped the leash and backed away. After a similar occurrence or two, the authorities closed the trail and a conservation officer later remarked “The wolves moved elsewhere when people quit bringing by little tethered treats” and the trail was eventually re-opened. It hardly made the news — no outraged letters against loss of human safety, property & unfettered access or calls for general defense and enforcement of civilization.
These were Canadians after all — have never gone through a revolution and have a firm understanding of their place relative to “The Crown”, so they were not quite so preoccupied with absolute freedom and dominion over all other life. It’s a perspective I find at times maddening — i.e. their myriad petty rules enforced by polite, self-important officials against things nearby coastal Alaskans take completely for granted like raking up washed-up dead kelp to fertilize your garden or taking your own risk (based on application of local knowledge and common sense) in digging clams on untested beaches. It leads to unusual patterns of behavior in small Canadian coastal towns . . . . where a lot of vegetable gardening is done at night. After harboring untold American draft dodgers, border officials may politely deny entry to an American with a 1960s war protest arrest on his record — but will of course provide a cumbersome administrative avenue whereupon he can navigate bureaucratic obstacles and, after thoroughly prostrating himself before the Crown, be declared officially “rehabilitated” and welcomed in without prejudice for his northern retirement vacation — some 43 years after his night in prison.
On occasion, however, I find Canadians’ tolerance and deference to their somewhat over-bearing Crown to be refreshingly sane — especially after prolonged exposure to our nation’s increasingly insane conservative culture.
May 25, 2011 at 7:04 PM
“little tethered treats”” I will have to remember that phrase for the future…:*)
May 25, 2011 at 8:28 PM
That’s why I always carry my .45 or .44 when hiking! You never know what can happen from weirdo people to weird animals. I usually always hike with my Dogs on Harness so they can’t slip out of a collar and chase anything.
May 25, 2011 at 9:55 PM
Although I enjoy wolves, I certainly recognize that with dogs, wolves can be hazardous. I can’t imagine going out into the wilderness unarmed and consider a firearm a survival tool, usually not necessary, but darned important if one really needs it.
But that’s OK, my wife and I backpacked across England two years ago. All we saw were a fox, squirrels, and birds. They have virtually no large wild mammals left, prey or predators. Millions of sheep though. I’d much rather have a few minor hazards like bears, lions, and wolves than live in such a benign “civilized” environment.
May 25, 2011 at 11:19 PM
Salmon were so plentiful in England in the Middle Ages that it was against the law for Lords or Masters to feed them to servants or apprentices more than a five days a week. Servants and apprentices had to be fed beef, pork, or poultry at least twice a week.
May 25, 2011 at 11:33 PM
Just read that the last known wolf in Scotland was killed in 1680 and the last known wolf was killed in Ireland in 1701. The Scotch Greyhound aka Irish Greyhound was bred to hunt and exterminate wolves from the British Iles. …so it was the wolves’ own cousins who were bred to exterminate them.
May 26, 2011 at 8:23 AM
The British are so “civilized, you have to pay to camp each night, often in a farmer’s field. Unless you do “wild-camping,” which means staying out of sight and camping illegally. Set camp late, take it down early is the rule. Why, you can’t even carry a knife over there, unless it folds, does not lock open, and has a three inch blade or less. All of my Benchmade etc. knives were illegal, so I had to purchase a “UK” knife to avoid arrest. We’re leaving on June 11th to hike the Coast to Coast route, and I’ll be telling Brits stories about all the freedoms we have here like real wilderness, guns and “real” knives.
May 26, 2011 at 10:12 AM
I’ve always wanted to fly fish for trout in some of those nice clear shaded streams in England that meander through an 18th century farmstead and under a 12th century stone bridge. It it is where fly fishing developed as a sport in the late middle ages and where fly fishing developed into a high art practiced by the upper class in Victorian England. It was the English Country Gentry that made fly fishing into the refined gentleman’s sport it is today.
I beleive it is very expensive, however, and you must have a guide to fish in almost any stream.
May 26, 2011 at 10:21 AM
++you must have a guide to fish ++ it’s gillie not guide.
I would be fun but very expensive, much rather go to Alaska.
May 26, 2011 at 9:01 PM
I feel sorry for the puppy and the owner. The 6 month old really did not have a chance at life, but I do not blame the coyotes for acting naturally in defending their territory. One of the major goals of survival for wildlife is to find, take and defend territory, and I would suspect (based on what I read in the article and natural behaviors of coyotes) defending their territory caused the killing of the dog. In the end, it is the responsibility of the owner to, A) know his/her surroundings, especially in areas where hiking, biking and camping are done, B) have your pet (especially a puppy) on a leash. This ensures at a young age that the pup gets use to a leash, and C) As many mentioned, get the puppy training classes. At 6 months of age It is to soon to fully have trained the dog, but a simple command such as “stop” would have definitely helped.
May 27, 2011 at 8:29 AM
Lately I have had issue with Coyotes in the city (I live in PDX). 3 weeks ago I shot one on the cover of my back that jumped the fence and chased my dog into the house. It was the 5th one I have killed inside my 5′ chain link fence this year.
May 27, 2011 at 8:30 AM
It should read “under the cover of my back porch”
May 27, 2011 at 8:55 AM
Sounds like those coyotes have changed their hunting and eating habits Ryan and, have figured out how to get a quick meal. Its interesting that in close to 20 years, I’ve never had a coyote jump into my 3 foot pole fence after my dogs. And I have a lot of coyotes around.
May 27, 2011 at 2:31 PM
Neither have I, part of it is that my dog was in heat. Although 2 of the 5 were bitches. The amount of missing dog and cat posters has gone down significantly in our neighborhood.
May 27, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Nancy,
You live similar to what I do, the coyotes have no need to go after your dogs for food, however if they were in heat you run a larger risk, but in these rural areas, we really don’t have that much of a problem with them. I do occasionally have one take down a fawn in the front yard or something like that, but they never really bothered my dogs..
May 27, 2011 at 3:35 PM
SB,
What do you think a coyote’s success rate is when pursuing a fawn in your area?
May 27, 2011 at 4:20 PM
SB,
In rural areas coyotes have a healthy fear of man, in urban areas they do not. I only killed three when she was in heat, the other 2 were months previous. I don’t like shooting in town, but I hate vet bills and the thought of losing my dog more.
May 27, 2011 at 4:26 PM
Ryan,
Urban coyotes are becoming a real problem, they have evolved, I fully understand what you are saying, I spent some time with my Father in Vancouver last fall and chased several coyotes off of his small property..
May 27, 2011 at 4:27 PM
Daniel,
I would give them a 20% chance of getting a new born, and less than a 5% chance of a week old fawn..
May 27, 2011 at 3:44 PM
We do SB. My “girls” are spayed but it would be interesting to know why Ryan has unspayed females, attracting coyotes. Is he breeding his dogs or just negligent?
May 27, 2011 at 4:17 PM
Nancy Drew,
I breed field trial German Wirehairs.
Are you usually catty, or is the self righteousness level a little higher than usual today?
May 27, 2011 at 4:28 PM
Nancy,
Neither one of my Golden’s were spayed, they were both championship lines, and we breed them, one was a specialized field dog and the other was a specialized water dog, but still the coyotes really never gave them or us much of a problem..
May 27, 2011 at 4:42 PM
Ryan – if you read my other post, I’m not feeling “catty” at all, just tired. Read about your coyote problem and wondered why so many coyotes seem to be jumping over your 5 ft. chainlink fence.
So are you making any attempts to solve the problem, or just contributing to the problem, by getting your jollies popping off coyotes attracted to your females in heat?
May 27, 2011 at 5:03 PM
They stay on their side of the fence they don’t get shot. They hop the fence, they get shot. I was wrong its only a 4 ft fence. I don’t know why they are there, I don’t have food or trash outside. I have a toddler who enjoys my lawn, any coyote that will stare me down at 25ft will take a bullet because it is not to be trusted around my toddler.
May 27, 2011 at 5:15 PM
Ryan – your female dogs in heat? Are you getting the big picture yet? Toss in a 4 year old toddler wandering around and you are just begging for problems, not just from the local coyote population but any aggressive male dog out there who also might jump the fence………
May 27, 2011 at 5:46 PM
Ryan was on here last month bragging about how he kills feral cats. I have 7 cats including 3 feral cats that have been completely socialized to humans. One of my FIV cats CHANCE is the best cat I have ever had. When I heard Ryan bragging about how he pops them for fun it is not a stretch to think that he pops all types of animals for fun
May 27, 2011 at 5:50 PM
Ooo! You have a FIV? We had a whole room of them at the shelter I used to work at. Some of the BEST cats ever. If I could have, I would have taken one home!
I guess I missed that post by Ryan. 😦
But that does bring me back to my question, what would a good solution be to that sort of problem? A higher fence?
May 31, 2011 at 9:51 AM
William,
Here is an interesting fact for you.. Feral cats kill a couple hundred million songbirds a year. Whether or not your cat is nice has nothing to do with this conversation.
May 31, 2011 at 10:09 AM
Ryan-
Cats, including socialized “pet” cats, kill a couple of hundred million songbirds a year, not just feral cats. My point about my cat Chance is that feral cats can become good pets with a little compassion and time invested in them. The problem is so huge unless there is a nationwide comprehensive trap-spay-neuter- release program there will be no headway made on the issue. Killing them for target practice is not a solution either
May 31, 2011 at 10:16 AM
William,
I lease some farm land that we hunt on. People dump thier cats frequently on it. If I spay and neuter all of the dumped cats I would have accumuliated about 50 running around killing native birds etc.. How is that better for the native wildlife than just killing them?
May 31, 2011 at 10:45 AM
Ryan-
Most of this problem is the result of people that are either apathetic and lazy (dumping these cats) or people that don’t have the financial resources to get their cats fixed. You’re going to handle it you’re way. The only way to reduce feral cat numbers and the numbers of cats that die in shelters long term is to stop them from reproducing. If there was an easier solution it would have been implemented 50 years ago.
May 27, 2011 at 5:10 PM
Nancy-
Ryan comes on this blog and tries to impress us with his badass tough guy image. I have tried to stay away from making comments Ryan but you are unbelievable. Face it- you enjoy killing animals for fun- it makes you feel better about yourself. Whether it’s feral cats, coyotes, cougars……. you are a joke Ryan
May 27, 2011 at 5:40 PM
It doesn’t look to me like he’s ‘getting his jollies popping off coyotes’. He’s protecting his toddler. He breeds his dogs. Spaying them would be out of the question then, wouldn’t it? What would be the actual solution to the problem? Building a taller fence? Keeping the child inside? Urban areas are much different from the rural ones. I’m not sure if you’ve ever lived in an urban area, if you have, I don’t mean to insult your intelligence if you have, then you would know there are big differences. I’m thinking, and I could be completely wrong, but my way of thinking is that coyotes in the urban setting are much more habituated to humans. They have to be given they live side by side with them. They aren’t going to give as wide a berth as they would in a rural setting.
May 27, 2011 at 5:51 PM
+They aren’t going to give as wide a berth as they would in a rural setting+
Harley – “berth” has nothing to do with it. If I suddenly or even gradually, took away your freedom to roam at will, hunt, raise a family, relate to other members of your species, etc. what would your reaction be, given the fact that you are considered a lot more intelligent then a coyote?
May 27, 2011 at 5:57 PM
So what is the solution here Nancy? We have coyotes in Chicago! That city has been there a long time. I’m kinda thinking those coyotes have been too, they are extremely resilient and adaptable! Coyotes and racoons are really amazing at how well they can adapt to just about anywhere! The suburbs have been here a long time as well. Coyotes have learned to live with humans and there is bound to be conflicts.
May 27, 2011 at 6:45 PM
Guess you’re gonna have to define “long time” Harley if you really want to know why so many of these conflicts are making the news these days.
May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM
Are you suggesting perhaps that Chicago should never have been founded or settled?
May 27, 2011 at 6:51 PM
In 1673, Father Jacques Marquette, French-born missionary of the Jesuit order, and Louis Jolliet, Canadian explorer and mapmaker, were the first Europeans to view the land on which the City of Chicago was to stand. The Chicago area was traveled by traders and explorers for some years after 1673. Late in the century two Indian villages were settled at Chicago and in 1696 Father Francois Pinet, a Jesuit missionary, founded the Mission of the Guardian Angel. The mission was abandoned in 1700 when missionary efforts proved fruitless. Little is known about the Chicago area from 1700 until about 1779 when the pioneer settler of Chicago, Jean Baptiste Point du Sable, an African American from Sainte-Domingue (Haiti), built the first permanent settlement at the mouth of the river just east of the present Michigan Avenue Bridge on the north bank. Ft. Dearborn was built in 1803. (You should go to the Michigan Ave. bridge area and see the various plaques that commemorate these people.) After that, men like Kinzie, Hubbard, etc. came and helped start Chicago on its way.
wiki.answers.com
That seems to me like a ‘long time’. Could be wrong I suppose, wouldn’t be the first time.
May 29, 2011 at 11:11 AM
Actually, I think it isn’t a matter of how long Chicago has been there as a city, it’s more a problem of the ever-expanding-suburbs. Once there was a lot of open land outside of the city, especially to the northwest. I lived in the “‘burbs” back in the late 1970’s and the farm country in the area was being sold and parceled up into trophy-homeville. All those trophy-homes out there on those 5 acre lots in the middle of the former cornfields… it was depressing to say the least. Now that those areas have been gentrified and developed into pseudo “country-side” with no tolerance for wildlife, the wildlife are pushed out of the once rural areas and now are being enveloped by the “burbs”. this creates a false reality with regard to whom was where first. It has almost always been the wildlife first answer… not the other way around. Humans like to tout their dominance over wildlife and the natural world in order to justify their continual raping of the land and wildlife habitat and then hypocritically claim to be “stewards” of the land and wildlife… what a crock of putrid propaganda that has now become the narrative for human safety. Specie-centrism.
What we really need in this country is something very similar to this:
The Law of Mother Earth: Behind Bolivia’s Historic Bill
A new law expected to pass in Bolivia mandates a fundamental ecological reorientation of the nation’s economy and society.
http://www.yesmagazine.org/planet/the-law-of-mother-earth-behind-bolivias-historic-bill
May 30, 2011 at 10:45 AM
On my forays to the Bay Area, this is a fairly common occurrence there…coyotes taking cats, puppies, etc. This is not a backcountry issue. When I’ve visited back there, I regularly see coyotes on the dog walking trails in the hills behind the houses.
Maybe if Aspen had some wolves, they’d keep the coyote population under control. And I heartily agree with others here, training is the answer to a lot of these pet problems. In this case, probably the owner should have kept her pup within view.
May 30, 2011 at 11:21 AM
Ryan and Harley I suggest you read Dr. Jon Way’s excellent book entitled “Suburban Howls”
May 30, 2011 at 4:16 PM
I saw the darnest thing today. One of our resident coyotes was hunting in the meadow this AM and my neighbors white German Shepherd jumped off their porch and went after it. I said “oh shit” here we go, but the two seemed like long lost pals. Just sniffed each others butts and caroused awhile. I called my neigbor and told him, check out your dog and his new friend. He immediately called it home and the coyote went about it’s business.
May 30, 2011 at 4:57 PM
Nice Timz.
A pug, poodle or another small breed of dog (especially a terrier breed, that has no fear of larger canines) probably wouldn’t of been able to pull off a “meet & greet” with a coyote.
May 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM
My last shepherd did the same thing with two coyotes, although they did test him a couple of times. A big wuf and the both of them took off.
May 30, 2011 at 6:01 PM
Ok, so…. why? I thought most canines were very territorial? I mean with the white shepherd, not with Immer’s shepherd
May 30, 2011 at 6:21 PM
Different dogs have different personalities. My last shepherd was great with other dogs, although he possessed a subtle body language(most dogs do) that is tough to detect. Miss it and it almost instantaneously hits a flash point. My current shepherd is great with people, but I really have to watch him with other dogs. He did chase a coyote out of a wooded area a few years back.
May 30, 2011 at 6:28 PM
immer. has there ever been any times when you had wildlife such as coyotes or wolves or any kind for that matter ever come up to your dogs to play with them?
May 30, 2011 at 6:37 PM
jon,
one evening in Winter ~ 15 years ago my GS saw two coyotes, and they just did the dog thing and then started sniffing the ground. One of the yotes gave my dog a couple of nose buts in a rear flank, and that was enough to initiate the warning bark and the coyotes took off.
No playing as in the Romeo episodes in Alaska. Probably wise to not let it happen. One does not want to habituate wolves at all. Only bad things will result.
May 30, 2011 at 6:49 PM
Romeo got along pretty well with dogs. I do believe that he killed one beagle and took a person’s pug and carried it away and dropped it. The pug was unharmed. Some were saying he took and carried the pug in his mouth because he thought it was one of his pups. Supposedly his girl was killed by a car and was pregnant withRomeo’s pups.
May 30, 2011 at 6:55 PM
May 30, 2011 at 8:23 PM
Sadly, things did no end up well for Romeo
May 30, 2011 at 8:26 PM
Yeah, a hunter illegally killed him. He was taken away from those who enjoyed seeing Romeo in the wild.
May 30, 2011 at 7:41 PM
My border collie just ignores it (like she does all other dogs)and she’s been 20 yds away from it. I think they (there’s 2 of them) are just another dog in the hood now, they are around almost daily. I think they must have a nearby den. a guy up the road has a great pyrennes/golden mix and he chases them off. They are breed to do that though.
May 30, 2011 at 7:44 PM
timz, the people in your neck of the woods, how do they feel about wolves? Have you come across any avid wolf haters?
May 30, 2011 at 7:49 PM
It’s rural Idaho I’ll let you guess. Although the folks in the mountain neighborhood I live in are mostly very tolerant, we’re the “yuppies” in town. It’s in the woods and most of us have 5 acres. We have 2 packs within a 10 mile radius and they wonder through once in a while. Nobody has complained as they haven’t bothered anyone yet. There worst offense was eating a guy’s dog food he left out on his porch, not a very wise move.
May 30, 2011 at 7:01 PM
When I lived in Marin County, CA I heard a story about a neighbor’s teenage daughter who was walking their dog in the adjacent hills. Suddenly several coyotes surrounded her, probably because of the pup. She started singing and after a short time the coyotes retreated.
Another time I was up there with my old 11 year old retreiver and my young 4 month old retriever. 2 coyotes appeared and started barking at us about 75 yards away. I assumed they had pups in the forest nearby. My old girl dog was about to go after them, but I controlled her. But the pup was so scared he ran all the way home, about a mile. Now he’s 4 years old and I think he’s still a scaredy cat!